This episode is dropping on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving which begins a season of giving and serving. Today, I’ll talk with Ryan Duerk, president and CEO of Miracle Hill Ministries, the largest organization in the Upstate of SC serving people experiencing homlessness. On any given night, over 600 men women and children call a Miracle Hill bed home. Ryan has great insights to share with you on how to best help your fellow community members who are hurting. He also has food for thought on the anecdotes you may have heard or shared about seeing more panhandling in downtown Greenville. Best of all, if you’re listening to this before Thanksgiving, he has a fantastic opportunity for you break bread with your neighbors who don’t have a home this holiday. Ryan has his own podcast called Miracles from the Hill, which you can catch on podcast platforms and YouTube. To learn about Miracle Hill Ministries and the many other service providers for folks experiencing homelessness, take a look at the links below:
–Greenville Homeless Alliance Resources Page
Produced by The Greenville Podcast Company. Simple Civics: Greenville County is a project of Greater Good Greenville.
Transcript
Katy Smith
This episode is dropping on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, which begins a season of giving and serving. Today I’ll talk with Ryan Duerk president and CEO of Miracle Hill Ministries, the largest organization in the upstate of South Carolina serving people experiencing homelessness. On any given night, over 600 men, women and children call a miracle Hill bed their home. You can visit miraclehill.org to learn more. Ryan has great insights to share with you on how to best help your fellow community members who are hurting. He also has food for thought on the anecdotes you may have heard or shared about seeing more panhandling in downtown Greenville. Best of all, if you’re listening to this before Thanksgiving, he has a fantastic opportunity for you to break bread with your neighbors who don’t have a home this holiday. Ryan has his own podcast called miracles from the hill, which you can catch on any podcast platform and YouTube. To learn about miracle hill ministries and the many other service providers for folks experiencing homelessness, take a look at the links in the show notes. Ryan, thanks so much for being here today. And for all that you do. It is the time of year, this is going to be posting right before Thanksgiving. And it’s when everyone starts to think about giving items and funds to people in need like Christmas gifts, meals money. Since you lead the largest organization in South Carolina serving people experiencing homelessness, can you share some guidance for listeners or any food for thought? How of how to help and how to help well?
Ryan Duerk
Yeah, so let me paint a picture first. So where Thanksgiving and Christmas are the happiest times of the year for most of us, this is the most difficult season for somebody experiencing homelessness. So whether they’re on the street or living in a shelter, just imagine not having your own place. Imagine not having connections with family or friends, waking up each day besides strangers. And as a result, there’s often a lot of need as well, every year, we probably get, you know, 600% more coats than we need, you know, and it’s well meaning people like we’re very, very thankful for it, we would much prefer guiding people’s donations. So I made I brought some notes with me. And I want to cover a couple of things. Certainly what people can do to help those experiencing homelessness. But I want to go broader than that, and then bring it back to Thanksgiving. So each one of your listeners I’m sure has seen those individuals that are downtown or on 385 and Woodruff road with the signs that are asking for food, and oftentimes really well meaning people, they just don’t know what to do, right. So they either roll up their windows, and they ignore that person and turn away or fiddle with their radio or they hand money out of the windows. So let me equip all of the listeners. Okay, so the equipping statement to remember is fill the need, not the greed. So if somebody’s asking for food, the answer is not to give them a bundle of money. If somebody’s asking for work, it’s not to offer up financial support, it’s to try to fill the need that they have. And so my wife won’t let me come downtown on date night, because I’m interacting with individuals, right. So somebody has a sign that says, I need something to eat, then my response to that, and what I would suggest to the listeners is, if you can end it safe, try to engage with that human being and try to fill their need. So somebody has that sign and I say, hey, you know, there’s a subway right down the street, let’s go down there, I’ll buy you anything you want to eat. And we’ll sit down and talk. So I’m trying to meet the person where they are, build a relationship, determine what really is going on with them and fill the need that they say they have. Now nine times out of 10 they don’t want the subway, right. They don’t want the subway, they don’t want the food. They’re after money. And in a very quick moment, that doesn’t really cost me anything. I’ve identified that and I’ve helped to determine that the need that they say they have is not the need that they really have in life. But there are many, many people that really do want the food really do have a need and then we as their neighbors can engage with them and help them to fill it. Additionally, every one of your listeners should know that there is a whole group of service providers that are out engaging with those individuals every week. It’s not that that person with the sign, most of the time they’re aware of the services that they have available to them. They’re aware of shelters that they can go to, they’re aware of opportunities for service with with medical or mental health or whatever the case may be. So it’s not like they’re really starving, there is food to be had if they want to engage with it. Now, that doesn’t mean that I don’t buy meals, I do buy meals for people. But that’s because I want to know the person rather than just fill an empty belly. What I would suggest for people to do is, is contribute to the people that are already doing the work. And, you know, the kind of the way to frame it is with your time, your talents and your treasures. So, you know, Miracle Hill, we use 10s of 1000s of volunteer hours every year. I mean, it equates to about 50 extra staff persons across miracle Hill, all the volunteer hours. And that is everything that you can imagine from serving a meal in a rescue mission, to acting as a mentor with somebody who’s, you know, gotten into stable, affordable housing. If you think that you don’t have skills with which to volunteer, I’m here to assure you that you do. You have something whether it’s just your time to sit with somebody, and listen to them, you have something that you can offer. You know, the the greatest commodity of volunteering is with the skills that you bring to the table. We need dentists, we need doctors, we need lawyers, we need people that have all different types of skill sets that are willing to offer it to come alongside somebody. You know, when you think about serving in a rescue mission, people often think about serving a meal. Yeah. And I think that’s about 20% of what would be ideal. We would love for somebody to serve a meal, what would be better than that, is if they came in there and worked alongside the people that are making the meal. Right, engaging in relationship, what would be better than that is make the meal, serve the meal, and then sit down and have the meal. Our neighbors, those that are experiencing homelessness, you know, from my perspective, they’re made in the image of God, they have the same values you and I do, and they are lonely this time of year, they want somebody to just engage with to have a relationship with. And certainly that’s something that’s needed at Miracle Hill. And across the entire service provider spectrum, there are opportunities to serve, both in facilities on the streets, gathering supplies, bringing in support. And that goes to the last piece, it’s time talents and treasures. We can’t exist without financial support, nor can any of the other service community or service providers here in the Upstate.
Katy Smith
You know, two things came up for me in hearing you talk. One was having had the privilege of working alongside as a volunteer, folks like you worshiping at Triune Mercy Center. Understanding that just the invisibility that people who are experiencing homelessness also experience that importance of fellowship and just recognizing someone’s humanity. If someone asks me for money on the street, to just say I’m I’m so sorry, I don’t have any I hope you’re okay. What can I do for you? Can I buy you a sandwich? That’s what any of us would hope that someone would give us a smile, say hello express concern. So just recognizing someone’s humanity, like a shared humanity, the gift that that has.
Ryan Duerk
Yeah. And you know, they’re called our invisible neighbors for a reason. But oftentimes, it’s even worse than being an invisible neighbor. It’s not that people don’t see him. It’s that people see him and instantly turn away. Imagine the dignity robbed from you that when people won’t even look at you, right? Golly, what a difficult place to be and what a lonely place to be in.
Katy Smith
The second thing that it this makes me think of and the benefit of giving to service providers financially rather than two people who are in these troubles is something Deb Richardson Moore told me, who used to be at Triune mercy center, the founder, that the more comfortable we make folks in these difficult situations to enable them to stay there rather than make healthier choices for their lives. We can become a hinderance, you know, by if there is shelter available with great help there, like you I’ll have at the rescue mission. If instead I make someone comfortable to stay in a tent, or they might be using or not seeking treatment for their mental illness, I’m more of a harm than a help. When I do that.
Ryan Duerk
And nearly all of us in the space agree on doing non toxic charity, which means giving hands up, not hand out, right. So we want to help people to help themselves.
Katy Smith
Yes, yes. All right. The term toxic charity comes up a lot this time of year and I think a lot of people use it without knowing enough about it. Can you elaborate on what toxic charity is?
Ryan Duerk
Yeah, so there’s a couple of good books on the subject. One is “toxic charity” and the other one is “when helping hurts,” both of them kind of with the same ideas. And it’s that idea that we want to empower and equip people to help themselves. Certainly there is a place to, to provide for somebody when they’re in need. But the higher thing to do would be to provide for them, give them the space that they can then self determine, make choices for themselves, with guided wise counsel around them, so that they have the opportunity to do the right thing. So the example that I often use when I talk to churches, if you’ve got teenagers, and if you buy them a car, they’re gonna love that car. If you make them pay for half of it, they’re really going to take care of that car, right, it’s theirs then. They’ve got skin in the game, they’ve contributed. And oftentimes, they, the teenager wouldn’t do that, because they’re not made to. In the same way, you know, if you don’t have anywhere to eat, there is somewhere to get a meal in Greenville for free, seven days a week, right? It’s not that there’s not opportunity out there. But if you help someone to be able to provide for themselves, man, the the empowerment that they experience, their ability to actually crawl out of the situation that they’re in and stay out of it is much greater than if they are just given it.
Katy Smith
is this fair to say, as a flip side, or the like the other half of toxic charity, when the charity that I provide is more about me as the donor than it is about the recipient. And that to me is the image of me going to Walmart and buying a whole bunch of coats, because I just spent like maxed out my own credit card on my family’s gifts. But I hand out the coats to people and I can pat myself on the back and put on Facebook what I did.
Ryan Duerk
Yeah, 100%. So in when helping hurts the author talks about, you essentially become your own God when you do that, right. Like, when you think I am doing for someone else, because I am better than someone else, then you became their superior. Rather than getting down in the dirt with somebody because we are all equal. We may have different opportunities. And we may be privileged to have you know, things at our disposal that somebody else does not. But instead of doing for the person because I’m better than them, I help them, I walk alongside them. I become their partner in it because we’re equals.
Katy Smith
That’s lovely. This time of year, it being the holidays, is when folks come to downtown Greenville to enjoy the many amenities you will not be doing it I hear you saying your wife won’t let you. You’ll be at the parade. Okay, great. Other than the parade, people come down, they shop, they want to go out to dinner. So we’ve heard so many anecdotes about an increase in the number of people experiencing homelessness that people are seeing what are your thoughts on this?
Ryan Duerk
Yeah, so you know, the number of those experiencing homelessness is kind of measured two different ways. The most common way that people read about is the PIT count, the point in time count that happens every January when it’s very cold, when the continuum of care goes out, and they literally interview and measure every single person. And for the past three years, the number of those experiencing homelessness has been stable or dropping, which is probably a surprise to the listeners. What I think has happened is that the those experiencing homelessness have become much more visible. I’ll come back to that. The other way that it’s measured is a much more inclusive way of looking at it over the course of a year. And there’s over 3000 individuals that we would say have experienced homelessness in Greenville County in a year, which is a lot of folks. Probably about half that at any given moment in time. But it also depends on how you measure homelessness like what’s your definition. In the PIT count, it’s a pretty narrow definition, that larger number it’s a much broader definition. But let’s come back to the downtown scenario. So why are individuals much more visible? Well, last time I checked Greenville has grown Greenville has developed and downtown is beautiful. And as downtown has become this beautiful picture of Greenville. And we have developed one building after the next and new neighborhoods here. The places where people who are experiencing homelessness with live have disappeared. Yeah, right. The woods have gone away. I mean, Unity parks a great example. So there was probably 50 individuals living where unity park now sits and so they were pushed out. I also think that those experiencing homelessness over the past 15 or 20 years have become bolder. In their interactions, here in Greenville, I think that’s been true in other parts of the country, but it has become bolder here. And when I say other parts of the country, let me be clear, the vast majority of those experiencing homelessness in Greenville are from Greenville. Right. So the misconception is that people are getting bused in and the vast majority of them, when we ask them their zip codes, they give somewhere around where they’re at. I mean, there are people from other parts of the country. But these are not like strangers. These are truly our neighbors. They are more visible, because we’re more where they are, rather than they are where we are. And they are bolder. And so you know, with safety, we need to interact the best we can and provide for them the best we can, but eliminating them from downtown, which could be done, would not eliminate the issue.
Katy Smith
For people who are listening, that want to give their most important gift of their time and fellowship, you have a really exciting event on Wednesday. Can you tell us about it?
Ryan Duerk
Yeah, and let me make one more comment on the time, talents and treasures piece. You know, as a person of faith, I would be remiss if I didn’t say the most important thing that somebody can do if they are of faith is pray for those experiencing homelessness and pray for those that are serving on their behalf. So yeah, we’ve got a big event coming up the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. I mentioned how lonely of a time of year this is. And you know, our shelters operate 365 days out of the year. And whether my counselors and the rescue missions and the program’s don’t like it, they all get the fact that the most important days that they can show up to work are Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day. Because it’s the days that people are most depressed. And we know that and we know the importance of creating community. So Tuesday, the week of Thanksgiving, we will deep fry 650 turkeys. It is our annual Turkey fry event. So we will literally have 60 friars going all day dunking these turkeys. And then a sea of volunteers will tear those turkeys into pieces, pan it up, and we will distribute those those fried turkeys to our shelters, to our programs, to foster parents, to other service agencies. Salvation Army gets Turkey from us every year. And then over the course of the week, we’ll have a variety of different Thanksgiving meals, big opportunities that we can be grateful. It’s what Thanksgiving is all about. And so Wednesday night at the Greenville rescue mission, we will have a huge meal probably four or 500 people so that’ll be the 150 men that call the Greenville rescue mission home in this time of year. We’ll invite the street homeless, those that don’t want to come sleep in a shelter but don’t have anywhere to go. So that’ll add some more people. And then we’re also inviting the service community, our volunteers, people whose hearts are knitted to this issue. And, you know truly viewed those individuals as our neighbors. And so we’ll all gather at six o’clock. We’ll have a big meal. With all the trimmings and all the fixings, we’ll talk about what we’re grateful for and we will just do life together like everybody else will Thursday morning at their home.
Katy Smith
That is so lovely. If folks listening want to participate, what do they need to do?
Ryan Duerk
Yeah, they can just show up at the Greenville rescue mission. 575 West Washington Street at six o’clock. You know most of our parking is gone now because the development but find somewhere to park walk on down come in the back door. If you come with a bunch of people. Don’t sit with them. Go sit with somebody else.
Katy Smith
Such a great point. Meet somebody new, ask them their story. That is great, Ryan, I’m so grateful to you and all of your colleagues at Miracle Hill ministries and I thank you also for the way you knit your work with so many other wonderful service providers and people who care in the community. And I hope that this helps you all listening know how you can be most impactful and folks lives this holiday season. And as corny as it sounds all the year round because the needs are here year round. So hopefully you’ll engage whenever you hear this podcast.
Ryan Duerk
You talked about Deb Richardson Moore earlier. Deb would say that these issues are not solved by the usual suspects. I’m the usual suspect, you’re the usual suspect. We’re already doing this but if we really want to make impact to this great city, then all the other people that are sitting on the benches gotta get in the game. Right? Time, talents, treasures. Come be a part of the solution. Advocate, get educated, learn how you can help that person that you see on the street, and then and then do it.
Katy Smith
That is so… that’s a perfect way to end and encourages you all to continue listening to simple civics Greenville County so you can learn ways to lift your voice up for folks in need. Happy Thanksgiving Ryan, thanks so much for being here.
Catherine Puckett
Simple Civics: Greenville County is a project of Greater Good Greenville. Greater Good Greenville was catalyzed by the merger of the nonprofit alliance and the Greenville partnership for philanthropy. You can learn more on our website at greatergoodgreenville.org This is a production of the Greenville podcast company.
